Finance in the US: Religion and Culture
Here Colby describes some of the influencing ideas that shaped the way the US approaches work and sharing resources…
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An excellent summary of some historical/economic ways of thinking that shape our lives today. Thanks for posting!
April 21, 2012 at 5:34 pm
Thank you for the love and support, dear sister! It means a lot!
April 23, 2012 at 2:55 am
It seems that anyone who can free themselves of cultural influences (like religion) and think for themselves without succumbing to cultural pressure, will be happier financially. Unfortunately, such a person would be very disliked by the average person, since there are so many dumb financial obigations in our culture (presents for birthdays, holidays, weddings, baby showers, etc).
It seems like either be a jerk and prosper, or loved by everyone and poor. I personally try not to let myself get caught up in obligatory spending, even if it makes someone mad. I’ve been dirt poor, and when you’re at that point, few people truly want to help you, including those who’d get angry at you for not coming to their baby shower.
This is what I keep in mind; that when it comes down to it, all I have is myself and my wife. I will not be broke to make anyone happy. If I can do something nice, I usually do; but never if it’s a financial burden to do so.
April 23, 2012 at 1:42 am
I hear you, broham…I have over time shed many relationships with folks who have conditional expectations upon which they base our friendship. I don’t really think of those examples when I think of community, though. I think of the people who are good friends to my wife, and show her support through times that can be easier…I think of the families that will watch my little girl with no hesitation, and in turn I am always open to watching their yungins when they need to carve out some space and time…
Those valuable relationships won’t hold things over ones head, and they can be truly fulfilling.
There are ideas of independence that say you must do it alone that I don’t know how to agree with. So much about how we can do it together seem much more favorable…sharing resources, tasks and ideas seem a likely place where folks can share their material and spiritual prosperity…
Thank you for sharing that very apt example.
April 23, 2012 at 3:03 am
I spent some years in a religious enviornment; they tried to live by a community lifestyle, as shown in the Bible; but the truth of the matter, is that everyone is ultimately out for themselves. “Community” living is unfortunately just an ideal. A very small group of friends or family can work to help each other, but the larger it gets, the less this can be maintaned. Having a very small circle of friends of family can help you grow; but because humans just have to much friction with each other, I don’t think the idea of a “community” sharing resources will work very well.
Then again…there are the Amish. They are one of the few groups of people that show this to work. But they are far from being a westernized society. The age of i-phones, Facebook and online gaming, has spoiled people living the lifestyle of westernized culture, to the point where community living can’t work. However, we are on the brink of a depression; this will indeed force people to start thinking about community living…or, our westernized sense of entitlement, could cause us to have an “every man for themselves” mentality, should a depression hit.
Sorry if I’m being too cynical…just my experience with “community” has proven to be bunk.
April 23, 2012 at 7:20 pm
“all I have is myself and my wife”
That is an unfortunate mode of thought to carry around in life. Heaven forbid that you should ever experience the loss of your wife in this lifetime. It’s understandable to want to preserve yourself and your livelihood. Money certainly does not grow on trees, but you also don’t have to give or spend money to serve others. Your time can be one of the most valuable gifts to anyone, regardless of whether or not they are aware of it at the moment.
April 25, 2012 at 5:18 pm
Hey Macrobius,
I really do appreciate you joining us and commenting, but there is a house rule that we can we can pick ideas apart, not each other. David was expressing his view, and while I may not agree, I must respect that his experience has informed him thus.
That said, what were your thoughts on the post or ideas that folks commented on?
April 26, 2012 at 12:16 am
I have found myself living in the moment and spending money that I shouldn’t far too many times, to make things easy for others, but I love giving. And It’s only money, right? Lately, I see the importance of keeping my spending in check, but I believe that if we worry about where it will come from, then, it will become an issue..
April 26, 2012 at 7:21 am
I agree with the final note of this talk re: individual vs. group think. However, I’m not sure if I can agree with the idea that white puritans have a stronger work ethic. Really? I”d like to see the study. I don’t think wealth is a relevant gauge of work. Plenty of people work mighty hard for minimum wage. Also, not all Anglo Saxons are Puritans. Did the work ethic begin with puritanism?
Or maybe I misunderstood. Please correct me.
Regardless of the little things that didn’t quite sit right, I enjoyed the conversation. It is important. It made me think, so thank you for that.
April 23, 2012 at 3:42 am
You make a good point, sister, and I’ll say that this is two dudes talking about a concept who are open to correction. I hope that more voices will bring more of the story along. There’s a lot to it, and we are just glad to get that ball rolling, because I hadn’t made the connection between one’s spiritual beliefs and how it might shape how they approach work and wealth…
April 23, 2012 at 3:50 am
LIke I said, it is a very important discussion. I enjoyed immensely. I think about it a lot. I know that I owe the community I live in. I feel beholden emotionally and monetarily. I like that feeling. I want it to extend out, to make bridges. I don’t want to be in a churchy investment club, pay to play. I don’t want to chant “mine, mine, mine.” We all need to think bigger. So thanks again for that.
April 23, 2012 at 4:02 am
Thank you for speaking up!
So, what are your thoughts about how we got here as far as our values regarding money, labor/work and community?
Thinking back as far as you can, where do you feel your values about those things came from and who passed them on to you?
April 23, 2012 at 6:54 am
What a lively discussion! I wanted to share a couple of resources for people who would like to learn more about the Protestant work ethic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism
http://www.vision.org/visionmedia/article.aspx?id=539
Again, this is merely a frame of reference from which we can discuss broader issues of wealth and community in our world today, and a small bit of information that can help us answer the question Oak asks in his latest comment, “what are your thoughts about how we got here as far as our values regarding money, labor/work and community?”
The Protestant work ethic is a theory advanced a century ago about the birth of capitalism, so I am not suggesting that it describes the many differences in how different communities relate to money and the generation of wealth today. However, the Protestant work ethic is a very interesting concept that can allow us to better understand the interplay between faith and wealth accumulation.
Here is an interesting article about how Muslims reflect in today’s society what Weber described in Protestants living hundreds of years ago: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/04/23/work_hard_pray_hard
The Protestant work ethic is not “right” or “wrong” but it is just a theory that can serve as a lens to help us understand history and to debate how we can learn from the past to create a better future for everyone regardless of race, culture of economic standing.
I look forward to reading more comments
April 23, 2012 at 2:41 pm